I recently got my hands on something I've wanted for a long time: this gorgeous, very heavy paperback published by Toho as part of a series on their tokusatsu films. This one details the history of Godzilla, Godzilla Raids Again and Varan. Not only does it include extensive film stills and basically entire scripts, it also features interviews with several people, including Ishirō Honda and Akihiko Hirata. (I translated the interview with Honda on my main blog.) This book was published in May 1985 and the interview with Hirata was conducted in March 1984, so around four months before his death. I should note that this book is not the first time this interview was printed: it was conducted by Toshimichi Otsuki as a bonus feature on a vinyl LP put out by King Records that presented a condensed version of Godzilla as a sort of audio drama. I'm guessing that's the reason why this interview is not as long as the other two that the book included - it's basically liner notes from an LP.
Although I have gone through this multiple times to check for accuracy, please keep in mind while reading that it is a machine translation and can't capture the same nuance as a translation done by a real human. Where applicable, I've used English-language titles for films mentioned within the interview, and I've also inserted notes throughout the text itself to avoid creating a billion footnotes, so hopefully that isn't too irritating.
Spoiler alert: he liked monster movies.
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| image sources: Godzilla 1954 and Son of Godzilla behind-the-scenes |
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| image sources: Samurai II: Duel at Ichijoji Temple, Godzilla, Farewell Rabaul, Secret of the Telegian, The Three Treasures, Story of Osaka Castle, Sanjuro, King Kong vs. Godzilla |
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| image sources: Adventure in Kigan Castle, Ghidorah the Three-Headed Monster, Atragon, Ebirah, Son of Godzilla, Admiral Yamamoto |
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| image sources: Prophecies of Nostradamus, The Family, Latitude Zero, Crazy Big Explosion, Terror of Mechagodzilla, The War in Space, The Imperial Navy, Sayonara Jupiter |
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This interview was conducted at Akihiko Hirata's home on March 9th 1984 and was effectively his last interview.
Mr. Hirata, are there any memorable moments from your time in the film Godzilla [1954]?
Hirata: Hmm... well, I guess it would be the Lucky Dragon no. 5 incident. It was right after that, so there was a certain fear of hydrogen bomb tests. And then there was anger. All of that stuff appeared in Godzilla, so the script really resonated with me and I was very impressed. Even now, it's well-received, but I wonder why it didn't have more recognition back then! I feel like it's even more valuable now. At the time, it was seen as kind of a light "monster movie". I'm dissatisfied with that. I think the critics at the time really should have taken the hydrogen bomb tests, the fear and anger towards nuclear weapons, and things like that seriously. It's not something outlandish at all. Godzilla was great after all. Godzilla's face is good, too. I wonder, did they make a Godzilla [model] for each movie?
Yes. It's completely different between Godzilla and Godzilla Raids Again, and even after King Kong vs. Godzilla, they made a new one almost every time. They did use some modified ones, though.
Hirata: It was scary, after all. I think that scariness is what makes Godzilla so appealing.
Especially since there were so many nighttime scenes.
Hirata: That's right, yes. Well, the initial discovery was during the day, but you know. At first [laughs] I had no idea what Godzilla was like when I was filming.
That's a bit strange.
Hirata: Yes. I couldn't see it.
Was that during filming? There are stills from before filming started that show it in detail.
Hirata: When it came to the movie, it was pretty all over the place. Well, no matter what, it wouldn't be called optimistic, to use today's terms. I thought it would be boring if it became too gloomy, but after watching it, it was gloomy after all, in the end [laughs].
Godzilla appeared as a culmination of the negative aspects of human civilization, like nuclear testing, and in the same way, I think Dr. Serizawa also carries the negative aspects of humanity. He keeps that in check with reason, but if he were to act on instinct like Godzilla, I think the Oxygen Destroyer could become the next Godzilla...
Hirata: Yes, that's right, that's right.
If you take one wrong step when using science for peaceful purposes, it can turn into a lethal weapon. I think that's the aspect that the movie portrays.
Hirata: So, Serizawa, [TL: Hirata uses "-san" for Serizawa and not "hakase" or anything like that] you know, he didn't have many lines, right? He didn't talk much. I think that was good. If Serizawa had done all the talking and solved all the mysteries, I think that would have been shallow and boring. I think that's also a good part of the original story, or the script.
That's the part that Takashi Shimura fills in.
Hirata: That's right. Well, he never makes excuses for his actions, or anything like that. He shows it through his actions. So, I think it's great drama.
At the time, people were drawn to the special effects.
Hirata: Yes, that's right.
As for the drama, it was, well... it's weird to say it's worthless, but it's become less important. The special effects were so amazing that people just couldn't help but look at them...
Hirata: It couldn't be helped. We thought the same at first. But then, after a decade or two, you watch it and you think, "Ahhh...!" The drama is very well done. I watched it slowly on video the other day... especially when you're watching it on a small screen like video, you're always more interested in the drama than the special effects. I thought, "Wow, the drama is well done," and "The people are well acted." And it turned out Serizawa and Yamane were the ones who were written the best. I didn't realize that when I was doing it. I just tried to make it not too tragic or sorrowful, that's what I remember.
Mr. Hirata, you've appeared in many Godzilla films aside from [the first], but are there any other works that have stayed in your mind?
Hirata: Special effects movies?
Yes.
Hirata: Rodan?
Rodan, right. Godzilla gradually became a champion of justice in later years.
Hirata: Yes, that's right. He became an idol, didn't he?
That was boring. He was a symbol of fear and terror.
Hirata: Yes, yes. So Godzilla has to remain the great enemy.
He can't be evil.
Hirata: Well, even his face has changed, you know.
He's become cuter.
Hirata: Yes, he's charming. Son of Godzilla was really funny [laughs].
It's a little one-sided...
Hirata: No, you see, as a service, it's okay to make something like that once in a while, for kids. After all, the main point of Godzilla is that he is the embodiment of evil. That's what Godzilla... you know, even a mechanical one came out, as Mechagodzilla. That kind of thing is just boring. Godzilla has to be a living thing, a slimy thing, otherwise it's not interesting. [TL: Damn, Mechagodzilla slander from the man himself.]
It is a creature that has lived since ancient times, so what would happen if it were to appear in reality? What would happen to the city that had finally been rebuilt almost ten years after the war? There is a sense of fear that everyday life would be destroyed.
Hirata: Well, at that time, things had just been rebuilt to a certain extent, right? The fear of that being destroyed might be an interest, or perhaps a concern. Now, in this world that has achieved such rapid growth - especially in Japan - what would happen if Godzilla appeared again? And what would happen if Godzilla destroyed it? It has become a big concern now.
Yes. I am particularly interested in what would happen if the buildings in Shinjuku were to collapse.
Hirata: Especially young people today have no idea that Tokyo, or even Japan, was in ruins. People who have no knowledge of the war, I think those kinds of people are interested. We'd never want to see it turn into ruins again, though.
Apparently Toho is making a new Godzilla movie.
Hirata: That seems to be the case. Well, I guess it's the allure of destruction that comes with Godzilla, and I feel like that's what young people today are looking for.
That's right. The generation below us doesn't know about the Vietnam War or the campus protests. They don't have a sense of danger when it comes to destruction.
Hirata: They don't. They're in a safe zone, and if something were to happen, I think they have a strong desire to watch from a safe distance.
It's good to have an objective, third-party perspective. So, now there's a huge Godzilla boom. Do you think there's a reason for this?
Hirata: I guess it's the influence of American movies, isn't it? Star Wars or Close Encounters of the Third Kind? Those kinds of things were very well received. "Even Japan can do it, there's no way we can't make something like that," a kind of nationalism... no, I don't know [laughs]. I think there's a kind of "Even Japan can do it!" feeling.
Yes, the fact that such a work was made 20 or 30 years ago is what makes it strong. How was it appearing in Sayonara Jupiter?
Hirata: Well, I didn't have many scenes in that. For me, it was a special effects movie, but it was a story about the near future. The near future is a possible story, 150 years from now. So, I can't experience 150 years from now, but I think it was a good experience to see what humanity, the Earth, and the universe will be like in 150 years. I prefer monster movies to special effects movies. It makes me feel like I'm watching a video game.
In the old days, they would hang things from wires and fly them, trying to make them look real. With Star Wars, it feels like they used computers to ensure the film would turn out [as expected].
Hirata: So everything is already calculated. It's like it was already done before the movie was made. You can predict everything, right? I think that's boring. After all, [with] handmade monsters, it appears, and you wonder, [where will it go]? You don't know until you shoot it. I think it's more interesting to make things like that, where there are still some unknown parts.
That's right. When you see the crater of Mt. Aso explode and Radon falling while burning, you can feel the passion of the people who are making it. You can see that they are making movies by hand, like making a pot or weaving cloth. But when it's made into a video by a computer, it feels like something is missing.
Hirata: When monsters appear, there's something romantic about it. [TL: This is one of my favorite quotes ever ever ever.]
It's like nostalgia for something yet to be seen.
Hirata: Yes, yes. It's this inherent [TL: The word he uses here either means "slime"/"sludge" or is a word that does not directly translate, which refers to a specifically human sense of melancholy; a rough approximation might be "sordidness" or "doldrums".] that humans have. The unknown, the unknown fear. Those things are symbolized by monsters, and they're fascinating. So whether it's Star Wars or Close Encounters of the Third Kind, it's interesting to watch the parts where aliens appear.
That's right. Modeling techniques and special effects makeup have become very advanced over there, so it would be interesting to see them develop even further.
Hirata: That's right. Have you seen Sayonara Jupiter?
No, I haven't seen it yet.
Hirata: I haven't seen it either. Well, it seems like the special effects and stuff are going really well. So it's fine as it is. If anything, I prefer special effects movies with monsters in them.
Everyone likes monsters themselves, too. I would say they're grotesque-looking.
Hirata: That's why people like that kind of thing, and nowadays there are a lot of fairy tales and commercials with monster motifs. The reason those things are so popular is because people have a romanticism about monsters.
They say that romance has disappeared in the modern age. That's why people are interested in Godzilla and monsters.
Hirata: In the human world, drama is fading away, isn't it?
Ah, you're right.
Hirata: So I think we expect that kind of thing from monsters all the more.
Thank you very much.
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Here are some other bonus pictures from the book.
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| Akihiko Hirata dressed as a Shintō priest and Momoko Kōchi as a shrine maiden, from a "Godzilla Festival" on October 25, 1954, after filming was completed. I've seen this picture floating around and always wondered what the context was. |
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| The top middle and bottom middle photos are stills related to Godzilla that do not appear in the film. Honda was asked in an interview if these were scenes that were shot and then deleted, but he claims that they weren't, and were simply still photographs. The bottom right is just a random picture from Varan I guess. |
You can see some more of these stills here. The OP theorizes that these could have been promo stills from when Hirata was slated to play Ogata, but I tend to disagree with that, considering that we have conflicting information about whether or not that was ever actually the case. I guess I will have to go down a rabbit hole about that.
...also, what in the world is going on with that Son of Godzilla behind-the-scenes photo?
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