Toho SF Tokusatsu Eiga Series vol. 3 (Godzilla/Varan/Godzilla Raids Again) (1985)

I recently got my hands on something I've wanted for a long time: this gorgeous, very heavy paperback published by Toho as part of a series on their tokusatsu films. This one specifically details the history of Godzilla, Godzilla Raids Again and Varan. Not only does it include extensive film stills and basically entire scripts, it also features interviews with several people, including Ishirō Honda and Akihiko Hirata. (I translated the interview with Honda on my main blog.) This book was published in May 1985 and the interview with Hirata was conducted in March 1984, so around four months before his death. 

I have some qualms about machine-translating an interview, to say the least, but I think that, as long as we all take this for what it is, there's not really anything wrong with me posting it. Just please keep in mind while reading this that a machine translation can't capture the same nuance and accuracy as a translation done by a real human. I'm not claiming that this is even really any good, but it's something. Where applicable, I've used English-language titles for films mentioned within the interview.

image sources: Godzilla 1954 and Son of Godzilla behind-the-scenes

image sources: Samurai II: Duel at Ichijoji Temple, Godzilla, Farewell Rabaul, Secret of the Telegian, The Three Treasures, Story of Osaka Castle, Sanjuro, King Kong vs. Godzilla

image sources: Adventure in Kigan Castle, Ghidorah the Three-Headed Monster, Atragon, Ebirah, Son of Godzilla, Admiral Yamamoto  

image sources: Prophecies of Nostradamus, The Family, Latitude Zero, Crazy Big Explosion, Terror of Mechagodzilla, The War in Space, The Imperial Navy, Sayonara Jupiter

On to the interview itself. I should note that this book is not the first time this interview was printed: it was conducted by Toshimichi Otsuki as a bonus feature on a vinyl LP put out by King Records that presented a condensed version of Godzilla as a sort of audio drama. (I'd love to get my hands on that but it's expensive, y'all, all this stuff is expensive, I had to get a part-time job.) I'm guessing that's the reason why this interview is not as long as the other two that the book included - it's basically liner notes from an LP.

   This interview was conducted at Akihiko Hirata's home on March 9th 1984 and was effectively his last interview.

   - Mr. Hirata, are there any particular memories you have of your appearance in Godzilla (1954)?

Hirata: Hmm... well, after all, that was the [Lucky Dragon no. 5] incident, just after that. There was still some kind of fear associated with the hydrogen bomb test. Then there's anger. First of all, the script really resonated with me and I was impressed by the fact that all of those things appeared in Godzilla. That's why, even though it still has a great reputation, I wonder (strongly) why it didn't have a better reputation back then! Somehow, it seems like it's more valuable now. I feel like at that time it was seen as something of a "monster movie", something light. There is some dissatisfaction with that. After all, the fear and anger towards hydrogen bomb tests and nuclear weapons is something that the critics of the time and others seem to take seriously. Wasn't it? It's not a frivolous thing. Godzilla was good after all. Yeah, I like Godzilla's face. [TL: Same.] Well, I wonder... didn't they make them every time they made Godzilla stuffed animals? [TL: "Stuffed animals" refers to the various puppets and maquettes used in filming Godzilla movies.]

   

   - That's right, Godzilla and Godzilla Raids Again are completely different, and [?] have made almost every movie since King Kong vs. Godzilla. [...]

Hirata: It was definitely scary. I think that fear is what makes Godzilla so appealing.

   - Especially because there were only night scenes.

Hirata: Yes, yes. Well, there are a few scenes where I saw [Godzilla] during the day, but that's okay. At first, I had no idea what Godzilla was like [laughs]... I had no idea what Godzilla looked like when I was filming it. That was really weird.

   - Since this was an unprecedented movie, did you have any difficulties acting?

Hirata: No, it wasn't really a hardship. I was having trouble deciding where to look, because I couldn't grasp the size. I'd say it's roughly 50 meters. Then, when the 50-meter object came close to 100 meters, I had no idea which side I should look at [laughs].

   - In Godzilla, you played the role of Dr. Daisuke Serizawa, and although you didn't appear much in the role in the second half, it felt like you were carrying the entire drama. So, what were the difficulties?

Hirata: Well... I guess it means that I, Dr. Serizawa, myself, have been scarred by the war. [Had this] come out as sentimentalism, I thought it was boring. I thought it would be nice if something somehow came out. There were scars on his face, including the eyepatch, but they didn't look very noticeable. I couldn't see it.

   - Did that happen during filming?

Hirata: Yes.

   - In the still before the crank-in, there is one that appears in Katsuaki. [TL: Is this referring to the deleted scene where Ogata and Emiko see what they think is some driftwood, but is actually Godzilla? I don't know.]

Hirata: However, when it became a movie, it was almost shocking. Hmm, well, I can't say I'm near-acquainted, to use today's terms. I thought it would be boring it if became too much of a joke, but after  watching it, it's really a joke. By all means [laughs].

   - Godzilla emerged as a coagulation of the negative aspects of human civilization, such as nuclear tests, and in the same way, I believe that Dr. Serizawa carries the negative aspects of humankind. I'm trying to keep this in mind, but if it were to act solely on instinct like Godzilla, I think that the Oxygen  Destroyer could become the second Godzilla...

Hirata: Yes, that's right, that's right.

    - If we make a mistake in using science for peaceful purposes, it can turn into a deadly weapon. I think this is a movie that depicts that aspect.

Hirata: Well, Dr. Serizawa didn't have many lines, right? He didn't say much. I think that was good for me. What if Dr. Serizawa were to say everything and do things like solve riddles? I think this is already flimsy and boring. I think that is also a good point of the original work, or rather the screenplay.

   - Takashi Shimura fills in that part.

Hirata: Yes, yes, yes. Well, he never made excuses or anything like that for his actions. It's shown through actions. That's why, even as a drama, [he] is a great person. I think so.

   - At that time, [the] focus was on [special effects].

Hirata: Yes. As for the drama part, it [felt] like it [was] kind of... worthless, which is strange, but it's rather weak that way. [TL: I'm making an assumption that this is intended to be in the past tense.]

   - The special effects were so amazing that I couldn't help but notice them...

Hirata: [...] That's what we thought at first, too. After all, you'll want to watch it after ten or twenty years... "Oh!" The drama part is very well drawn. I slowly watched it on video the other day. Especially when I watch it on a small video screen, I tend to be more interested in the drama than the special effects. I thought, "Ah, the drama is really well done" and "the people are portrayed very well". As expected, Dr. Serizawa is the best drawn. And Dr. Yamane... I didn't understand that when I was doing it. However, in a strange way, I was trying not to make it look tragic, but I do remember that.

   - Mr. Hirata, you have appeared in many other Godzilla series films besides Godzilla, are there any other works besides the first that remain in your heart?

Hirata: A special effects movie?

   - Yes.

Hirata: Rodan, right?

   - It's Sora no Daikaijū Radon. [TL: I've kept the original title of the film here, since in English both Rodan the monster and Rodan the movie have the same name. Hirata is saying "Rodan" as in the monster and Otsuki responds with the full title of the film.] Godzilla gradually became an ally of justice in later years.

Hirata: Yes, yes. He would have become an idol. That's boring, isn't it?

   - It was a symbol of fear and terror.

Hirata: [TL: I've tried translating this passage several times and it's just not coming out coherent. It's something about how Godzilla or kaiju in general will always be humanity's enemies?] It has to be that way.

   - Godzilla doesn't have to be evil.

Hirata: Well, even the look of [Godzilla's] face has changed.

   - It's become cute.

Hirata: Yeah, he's charming. Son of Godzilla was really funny [laughs].

   - The direction is a little...

Hirata: No, that's why, as a service, it's okay to make something like that once in a while, especially for the children. After all, the essence of Godzilla is that he's the embodiment of evil. That's why Godzilla... that horror, Mechagodzilla, etc, came out as a [machine]. That kind of thing is boring after all. Godzilla is a living thing, and it wouldn't be interesting unless it was a slimy creature.

   - This is a creature that has lived forever, since ancient times, but what would happen if it appears in reality? Nearly ten years after the war, [the town?] finally recovered. What will happen? There is that fear of having your daily life disrupted.

Hirata: Well, at that time, it was just a period of recovery to some extent. Maybe it's the fear of it being destroyed, or maybe it's [interest]. Now, in a world that has achieved such rapid growth, especially in Japan, there are so many questions like "What if Godzilla shows up here again?" and "What will happen if Godzilla destroys it?" It's now becoming a big topic of interest.

   - It will be. I'm particularly interested in what would happen if a building in the Shinjuku subcenter collapsed.

Hirata: Especially young people today have no idea that Tokyo, or even Japan, was in ruins. People who don't know about war, I'm sure such people are interested. I don't think we would ever want to see it become a ruin again.

   - Apparently Toho is making a new Godzilla movie.

Hirata: It seems so. Hmm, I guess it's the allure of destruction that comes with Godzilla, and I feel like young people today are looking for something like that. [TL: It's possible - though unlikely - that he knew he was supposed to be in the new Godzilla movie at this point but just wasn't saying anything; according to Kenji Sahara he "never leaked gossip to the press". Note also that when production of Return of Godzilla was announced, it was Hirata who broke the news officially.]

   - I agree. The generation below us doesn't know about the Vietnam War or the [student protests]. There is no sense of crisis about destruction.

Hirata: Not really. If you're in a safe zone and that happens, you probably have a strong desire to see[...]

   - I really like an objective, third-party perspective. That's why there's a huge Godzilla boom right now, and there's a reason for this. Do you think so?

Hirata: There's definitely the influence of American movies. Isn't it? Star Wars or Close Encounters of the Third Kind. That kind of thing was very well received. "Japan can't do it, you can't make something like that. It can't be possible." A kind of nationalist righteousness... I don't think so [laughs]. I wonder what it is. "Even Japan can do this!" That's right. There must be something wrong with that.

   - Well, the fact that such a work [was created] 20 or 30 years ago is what makes it so strong. How do you feel about not appearing in Sayonara Jupiter? [TL: Not sure what this means since he was definitely in the movie, it seems like they may just be talking about how he didn't get a lot of scenes.]

Hirata: Well... well, I didn't appear very often. For me, it's a special effects movie after all, but it's a story set in the near future.

   - Yes.

Hirata: It's a possibility in the near future, 150 years from now. Well, 150 years from now, I won't be able to experience it myself. I think it was good to experience what humanity, the Earth, and the universe will look like 150 years from now. If anything, I prefer monster stories, especially more than [photography?]. I feel like I'm watching a TV game [laughs].

   - In the past, we tried to make it look real by hanging [props] with wire and making [them] fly. It feels like they used computers in Star Wars movies to guarantee that they would be able to make pictures like this.

Hirata: Well, everything has already been calculated. It's like the movie was already made before it was even made. You can predict everything, right? I think this is boring. After all, it's handmade. A monster comes out, and then you wonder if it's going to the right or the left. After all, you won't know until you take the picture. It's a work that has some aspects that are still unknown. It's more interesting the way it is.

   - I agree. When you see [Mt. Aso] exploding and Rodan falling down while burning, you can really feel the passion of the people who made it. You can see that they are making a movie by hand, like making cloth or weaving. When it comes to video production or computers, it feels like something is missing.

Hirata: When a monster appears, there is something romantic about it. [TL: I would get this quote tattooed on me.]

   - You could call it nostalgia for things you haven't seen yet.

Hirata: Yeah, yeah. It's this mushy thing that humans naturally have. Something unknown, an unknown fear. That sort of thing is, after all, symbolized by monsters. That's what makes it so appealing. That's why, whether it's Star Wars or Close Encounters of the Third Kind, it's always interesting to see alien-like characters appear.

   - I agree. Over there, mold technology and special makeup are highly developed. It would be interesting to develop that further.

Hirata: Yes, yes. Have you seen Sayonara Jupiter?

   - No, I haven't seen it yet.

Hirata: Yeah, I haven't seen it either. Well, it seems like special effects and things are going very well. So, I guess that's what it is. If anything I prefer special effects movies that feature monsters.

   - I guess everyone likes monsters themselves. Would you say it's a strange thing?

Hirata: That's why, because I like things like that, there are a lot of fairy tales and commercials with monster motifs coming out these days. The reason something like that gets such a good reputation is because it's a romanticism toward monsters, because everyone has that sort of thing. Right?

   - It is said that romance has disappeared in modern times. I guess that's why everyone is interested in Godzilla and other monsters.

Hirata: In the human world, the drama is thin. It's on the rise, isn't it?

   - Oh yes.

Hirata: That's why it's so much more about monsters and things like that. Isn't that what you're looking for?

   - Thank you very much.

____

Here are some other bonus pictures from the book.

Akihiko Hirata dressed as a Shintō priest and Momoko Kōchi as a shrine maiden, from a "Godzilla Festival" on October 25, 1954, after filming was completed. I've seen this picture floating around and always wondered what the context was.

The top middle and bottom middle photos are stills related to Godzilla that do not appear in the film. Honda was asked in an interview if these were scenes that were shot and then deleted, but he claims that they weren't, and were simply still photographs. The bottom right is just a random picture from Varan I guess.

You can see some more of these stills here. The OP theorizes that these could have been promo stills from when Hirata was slated to play Ogata, but I tend to disagree with that, considering that we have conflicting information about whether or not that was ever actually the case. I could totally be wrong, though.

...but you bet we're gonna go down a rabbit hole about this.