Toho SF Tokusatsu Eiga Series vol. 3 (Godzilla/Varan/Godzilla Raids Again) (1985)

I recently got my hands on something I've wanted for a long time: this gorgeous, very heavy paperback published by Toho as part of a series on their tokusatsu films. This one details the history of Godzilla, Godzilla Raids Again and Varan. Not only does it include extensive film stills and basically entire scripts, it also features interviews with several people involved with the films.

This book was published in May 1985 and the interview with Hirata was conducted in March 1984, so around four months before his death. I should note that this book is not the first time this interview was printed: it was conducted by Toshimichi Otsuki as a bonus feature on a vinyl LP put out by King Records that presented a condensed version of Godzilla as a sort of audio drama. I'm guessing that's the reason why this interview is not as long as the other two that the book included - it's basically liner notes from an LP.

Although I have gone through this multiple times to check for accuracy, please keep in mind while reading that it is largely a machine translation and can't capture the same nuance as a translation done by a real human. Where applicable, I've used English-language titles for films mentioned within the interview.

Spoiler alert: he liked monster movies.

image sources: Godzilla 1954 and Son of Godzilla behind-the-scenes

image sources: Samurai II: Duel at Ichijoji Temple, Godzilla, Farewell Rabaul, Secret of the Telegian, The Three Treasures, Story of Osaka Castle, Sanjuro, King Kong vs. Godzilla

image sources: Adventure in Kigan Castle, Ghidorah the Three-Headed Monster, Atragon, Ebirah, Son of Godzilla, Admiral Yamamoto  

image sources: Prophecies of Nostradamus, The Family, Latitude Zero, Crazy Big Explosion, Terror of Mechagodzilla, The War in Space, The Imperial Navy, Sayonara Jupiter

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This interview was conducted at Akihiko Hirata's home on March 9th 1984 and was effectively his last interview.

Mr. Hirata, are there any memorable moments from your time in the film Godzilla [1954]?

Hirata: Hmm... well, I guess it would be the Lucky Dragon no. 5 incident. It was right after that, so there was a certain fear of hydrogen bomb tests. And then there was anger. All of that stuff appeared in Godzilla, so the script really resonated with me and I was very impressed. Even now, it's well-received, but I wonder why it didn't have more recognition back then! I feel like it's even more valuable now. At the time, it was seen as kind of a light "monster movie". I'm dissatisfied with that. I think the critics at the time really should have taken the hydrogen bomb tests, the fear and anger towards nuclear weapons, and things like that seriously. It's not something outlandish at all. Godzilla was great after all. Godzilla's face is good, too. I wonder, did they make a Godzilla [model] for each movie?  

Yes. It's completely different between Godzilla and Godzilla Raids Again, and even after King Kong vs. Godzilla, they made a new one almost every time. They did use some modified ones, though.

Hirata: It was scary, after all. I think that scariness is what makes Godzilla so appealing.

Especially since there were so many nighttime scenes.

Hirata: That's right, yes. Well, the initial discovery was during the day, but you know. At first [laughs] I had no idea what Godzilla was like when I was filming.

That's a bit strange.

Hirata: Yes. I couldn't see it.

Was that during filming? There are stills from before filming started that show it in detail.

Hirata: When it came to the movie, it was pretty all over the place. Well, no matter what, it wouldn't be called optimistic, to use today's terms. I thought it would be boring if it became too gloomy, but after watching it, it was gloomy after all, in the end [laughs].

Godzilla appeared as a culmination of the negative aspects of human civilization, like nuclear testing, and in the same way, I think Dr. Serizawa also carries the negative aspects of humanity. He keeps that in check with reason, but if he were to act on instinct like Godzilla, I think the Oxygen Destroyer could become the next Godzilla...

Hirata: Yes, that's right, that's right.

If you take one wrong step when using science for peaceful purposes, it can turn into a lethal weapon. I think that's the aspect that the movie portrays.

Hirata: So, Serizawa, [TL: Hirata uses "-san" for Serizawa and not "hakase" or "sensei".] you know, he didn't have many lines, right? He didn't talk much. I think that was good. If Serizawa had done all the talking and solved all the mysteries, I think that would have been shallow and boring. I think that's also a good part of the original story, or the script.

That's the part that Takashi Shimura fills in.

Hirata: That's right. Well, he never makes excuses for his actions, or anything like that. He shows it through his actions. So, I think it's great drama.

At the time, people were drawn to the special effects.

Hirata: Yes, that's right.

As for the drama, it was, well... it's weird to say it's worthless, but it's become less important. The special effects were so amazing that people just couldn't help but look at them...

Hirata: It couldn't be helped. We thought the same at first. But then, after a decade or two, you watch it and you think, "Ahhh...!" The drama is very well done. I watched it slowly on video the other day... especially when you're watching it on a small screen like video, you're always more interested in the drama than the special effects. I thought, "Wow, the drama is well done," and "The people are well acted." And it turned out Serizawa and Yamane were the ones who were written the best. I didn't realize that when I was doing it. I just tried to make it not too tragic or sorrowful, that's what I remember.

Mr. Hirata, you've appeared in many Godzilla films aside from [the first], but are there any other works that have stayed in your mind?

Hirata: Special effects movies?

Yes.

Hirata: Rodan?

Rodan, right. Godzilla gradually became a champion of justice in later years.

Hirata: Yes, that's right. He became an idol, didn't he? 

That was boring. He was a symbol of fear and terror. 

Hirata: Yes, yes. So Godzilla has to remain the great enemy.

He can't be evil.

Hirata: Well, even his face has changed, you know.

He's become cuter.

Hirata: Yes, he's charming. Son of Godzilla was really funny [laughs].

It's a little one-sided...

Hirata: No, you see, as a service, it's okay to make something like that once in a while, for kids. After all, the main point of Godzilla is that he is the embodiment of evil. That's what Godzilla... you know, even a mechanical one came out, as Mechagodzilla. That kind of thing is just boring. Godzilla has to be a living thing, a slimy thing, otherwise it's not interesting.

It is a creature that has lived since ancient times, so what would happen if it were to appear in reality? What would happen to the city that had finally been rebuilt almost ten years after the war? There is a sense of fear that everyday life would be destroyed.

Hirata: Well, at that time, things had just been rebuilt to a certain extent, right? The fear of that being destroyed might be an interest, or perhaps a concern. Now, in this world that has achieved such rapid growth - especially in Japan - what would happen if Godzilla appeared again? And what would happen if Godzilla destroyed it? It has become a big concern now.

Yes. I am particularly interested in what would happen if the buildings in Shinjuku were to collapse.

Hirata: Especially young people today have no idea that Tokyo, or even Japan, was in ruins. People who have no knowledge of the war, I think those kinds of people are interested. We'd never want to see it turn into ruins again, though.

Apparently Toho is making a new Godzilla movie.

Hirata: That seems to be the case. Well, I guess it's the allure of destruction that comes with Godzilla, and I feel like that's what young people today are looking for.

That's right. The generation below us doesn't know about the Vietnam War or the campus protests. They don't have a sense of danger when it comes to destruction.

Hirata: They don't. They're in a safe zone, and if something were to happen, I think they have a strong desire to watch from a safe distance.

It's good to have an objective, third-party perspective. So, now there's a huge Godzilla boom. Do you think there's a reason for this?

Hirata: I guess it's the influence of American movies, isn't it? Star Wars or Close Encounters of the Third Kind? Those kinds of things were very well received. "Even Japan can do it, there's no way we can't make something like that," a kind of nationalism... no, I don't know [laughs]. I think there's a kind of "Even Japan can do it!" feeling.

Yes, the fact that such a work was made 20 or 30 years ago is what makes it strong. How was it appearing in Sayonara Jupiter?

Hirata: Well, I didn't have many scenes in that. For me, it was a special effects movie, but it was a story about the near future. The near future is a possible story, 150 years from now. So, I can't experience 150 years from now, but I think it was a good experience to see what humanity, the Earth, and the universe will be like in 150 years. I prefer monster movies to special effects movies. It makes me feel like I'm watching a video game.

In the old days, they would hang things from wires and fly them, trying to make them look real. With Star Wars, it feels like they used computers to ensure the film would turn out [as expected].

Hirata: So everything is already calculated. It's like it was already done before the movie was made. You can predict everything, right? I think that's boring. After all, [with] handmade monsters, it appears, and you wonder, [where will it go]? You don't know until you shoot it. I think it's more interesting to make things like that, where there are still some unknown parts.

That's right. When you see the crater of Mt. Aso explode and Radon falling while burning, you can feel the passion of the people who are making it. You can see that they are making movies by hand, like making a pot or weaving cloth. But when it's made into a video by a computer, it feels like something is missing.

Hirata: When monsters appear, there's something romantic about it.

It's like nostalgia for something yet to be seen.

Hirata: Yes, yes. It's this inherent [TL: The word he uses here either means "slime"/"sludge" or is a word that does not directly translate, which refers to a specifically human sense of melancholy; a rough approximation might be "sordidness" or "doldrums".] that humans have. The unknown, the unknown fear. Those things are symbolized by monsters, and they're fascinating. So whether it's Star Wars or Close Encounters of the Third Kind, it's interesting to watch the parts where aliens appear.

That's right. Modeling techniques and special effects makeup have become very advanced over there, so it would be interesting to see them develop even further.

Hirata: That's right. Have you seen Sayonara Jupiter?

No, I haven't seen it yet.

Hirata: I haven't seen it either. Well, it seems like the special effects and stuff are going really well. So it's fine as it is. If anything, I prefer special effects movies with monsters in them.

Everyone likes monsters themselves, too. I would say they're grotesque-looking.

Hirata: That's why people like that kind of thing, and nowadays there are a lot of fairy tales and commercials with monster motifs. The reason those things are so popular is because people have a romanticism about monsters.

They say that romance has disappeared in the modern age. That's why people are interested in Godzilla and monsters.

Hirata: In the human world, drama is fading away, isn't it?

Ah, you're right.

Hirata: So I think we expect that kind of thing from monsters all the more.

Thank you very much.

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Here are some other bonus pictures from the book.

Akihiko Hirata dressed as a Shintō priest and Momoko Kōchi as a shrine maiden, from a "Godzilla Festival" on October 25, 1954, after filming was completed. I've seen this picture floating around and always wondered what the context was.

The top middle and bottom middle photos are stills related to Godzilla that do not appear in the film. Honda was asked in an interview if these were scenes that were shot and then deleted, but he claims that they weren't, and were simply still photographs. The bottom right is just a random picture from Varan I guess.

...also, what in the world is going on with that Son of Godzilla behind-the-scenes photo?

キネマ旬報 1979年10月下旬号 / Kinema Junpo, Late October 1979 Issue

I won this on Yahoo! Auctions, although I don't think "won" is the right word to use, considering that literally no one but me bid on it. 

Anyway, if kinenote.com is to be believed, this is the only article Kinejun has run that is entirely about Akihiko Hirata, not just a movie he was in. The occasion appears to have been a re-release of many major Godzilla films and other Toho tokusatsu works that year (which was the 25th anniversary of the first Godzilla film.) I'm not sure if this has ever been uploaded online, either as scans or just the text, so I'm including both the original in Japanese and a machine translation which I have typed up and made more readable by fixing pronouns, sentence structure, etc.; the kind of stuff that gets garbled in machine translations. I've been over it a couple of times, and it's still not very good, but it's something. The photographer is credited as Koji Nishikawa, who I'm assuming also did the interviewing and wrote the article.

Visualize me cringing while trying very hard not to break the spine by putting this in my scanner...

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The film opens. The familiar music by Akira Ifukube begins to play. The Toho logo appears. The names of the staff, including producer Tomoyuki Tanaka and special effects director Eiji Tsuburaya, are listed. The names of the actors follow, and finally director Ishirō Honda appears. All the while, loud applause rings out intermittently throughout the theater. This is the scene at the Nichigeki Theater, where Toho's best special effects films were shown all at once, under the title "Godzilla Movie Collection [All August]". 

The last screening, which featured older films, was particularly lively. The audience was a diverse bunch, from elementary and middle school students to the kind of old men you might see at a film center, to young housewives with small children. They all gave generous applause to the screen. They clapped when the spaceship came out, and clapped again when the robot appeared. The children joined in, clapping. They seemed at first to be clapping without knowing what was going on, but they did know what was going on, shouting things like "Moguera will show up soon!" Kids these days study even old films as well.

I myself was moved to tears by the aerial combat scene in Battle in Outer Space, which I saw again for the first time in a long time. The excitement of seeing rocket fighter planes modeled after the experimental X155 aircraft of the time take off from the pages of boys' manga and fantasy drawings and engage in actual battles in out space on the screen is indescribable. Moreover, this is merely a dream imagined by the Japanese, which is why it is far more exciting than something like Star Wars. I could go on and on about this, so I'll stop here.

The actor who received the most applause at the "Godzilla Movie Collection" at the Nichigeki was Akihiko Hirata.

 - "That's what I heard. I got a letter from a fan saying 'Hirata was a [great actor]'. I was puzzled, thinking that was a strange thing to do. [laughs]"

Hirata appeared in 7 of the 15 Godzilla films alone. Including other works, he has appeared in about 30 Toho special effects films. [I asked] "Have you seen the overseas version of Godzilla?"

- "Yes, I have. I was surprised to hear that I speak good English [laughs]. During the peak of Godzilla movies, I received a lot of fan mail from America and Southeast Asia."

Recently, he says he has been receiving fan mail and doujinshi from all over the country. There are also countless magazines featuring Godzilla movies on racks. When I showed one to Hirata, he said, "Oh, that brings back memories, a [...]¹monster movie... the black-and-white, documentary-like feel is very powerful. I think the first Godzilla is the best. Godzilla's personality and appearance changed after it was in color." 

"When we were filming, we didn't know what we were doing, but now it feels like a classic. The filmmakers didn't know what they were doing, so they probably had three newcomers to it. The special effects scenes were done after the main story was almost finished, so it was even more confusing for us. Godzilla appeared, but when they told me to look at him, I didn't know where to look [laughs]." 

"The thing I found difficult was the stop-motion animation of the [models]. [They] shot the Godzilla [model] by moving it little by little. The doll was about 1 meter (3 feet) tall".

I had never heard that stop-motion animation² was used in Godzilla. [I ask] if a new Godzilla movie were made, would you like to appear in it again?

 - "I'd like to appear in it again. But I'd like to see one that isn't made for children."

Hirata has played many roles as genius scientists, staring with Dr. Serizawa in Godzilla. In the latest film in the series, [his character, Shinzo Mafune] even won a Nobel Prize.

  - "I'm actually not good at science," he says with a wry smile.

In war movies, he plays an officer. In Ebirah, Horror of the Deep, he wears an eyepatch like Dr. Serizawa and plays a one-eyed soldier. This kind of thing really suits him.

  - "There are a lot of them, aren't there? Is that right? I wonder. I still remember something that Yoshikata Yoda told me before. He said 'there are no actors who can play ordinary people'. I thought I could do anything, but I ended up playing a lot of serious roles."

That's because, when you hear Hirata's background, he's quite far from an ordinary person. Born in Gyeongseong, Korea³ in 1927, he returned to Japan before he even knew it. He received a strict, Spartan education and entered the Tokyo Army Cadet School.

  - "I had no intention of becoming a soldier at all. When I was a child, I admired Beethoven⁴, and I wanted to be a composer. When I was in elementary school, I wanted to go to Tokyo University and become a businessman. My older brother tried to get into military school and failed both times. Yes, it's difficult after all. Then, a distant relative was an army general, so someone had to become a soldier, and I was chosen. I applied, reluctantly, and I got in..."

His older brother is Yoshiki Onoda, a director currently active in TV after working for Shintoho. After graduating from military school, Hirata went on to the Army Academy just before the end of the war. There was a plan to move the Imperial Headquarters into the mountains of Nagano in preparation for the mainland battle, and he was training at the foot of Mt. Asama as a guard [as] he was an elite soldier.⁵ [I ask] "So, when the war ended..."

 - "Well, that was a blank period. Of course, I thought I would die before the war ended."

He returned home in a daze. After graduating from First High School and the law department of the University of Tokyo, he joined [Tokyo Boeki] (later Mitsubishi). He said that he never wanted to serve a government official again, so he joined a private company.

 - "I was pure-bred in the military, isolated from the outside world, and was only taught to die for the country and the emperor, so I didn't know anything. It's a strange story, but I didn't know anything about sex. I guess this goes on tape... I didn't even know what a wet dream was[...]⁶"

In reaction to that lifestyle, after entering the University of Tokyo, he didn't study much, but instead devoted himself to theater and dance. He made his debut at the May Festival, and was called a hammy actor.⁷ At first, he was quite calm, thinking that this was just how it was. His house was used as a dormitory for Shintoho staff and actors, so he started to associate with people in the film industry, and while he was a student, he worked part-time as an assistant director. His first film was Lynching, directed by Nobuo Nakagawa, in which Yoshiko Kuga appeared alongside Ryō Ikebe. Kuga is now Hirata's wife.

 - "She's short, so when she talked to Ryō, I put her on a platform. I had to hold the platform as hard as I could, it's so ridiculous [laughs]. I remember that, but she doesn't remember it at all."

[I ask him] how they met.

 - "We worked together on Hiroshi Inagaki's Siege of Osaka Castle. We went to Gotemba for filming, and the weather was so bad it was extended by about 10 days. During that time, we played mahjongg to kill time, and we became friends, and that was it."

Hirata is a former army alumnus from Tokyo University. Kuga is the daughter of a former duke. It's a dramatic setting that reminds me of Gone With the Wind, in which Hirata played Ashley...

 - "That's not true. He was a poor duke, and since the aristocracy was abolished, his title is worthless. When we're at home, we're always wearing rags. I say "you should behave a little better, you're being disrespectful to your husband." When people come over, we get in trouble and panic. We're like a beggar couple [laughs]."

When they're at home, they just sit around doing nothing. Hirata is reading a book in silence. His wife is talking to herself. "I see, I see," Hirata nods nonchalantly.

They're happy. Their wedding anniversary is - "October 9, 1961," she answers immediately. They go outside to take a photo. Hirata's figure, with his back straight and his slow strides, would look like a scene from a movie if he were in a military uniform.

 - "I can't get rid of old habits..."

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1 The word here translates literally to "waterfall", so I'm assuming it's being used metaphorically, but I'm not sure what it means in this context.

2 In the original text this is referred to in kana as "dynamation".

3 Known as Keijo at the time, this is now in Seoul.

4 Same birthday.

5 I mean, he wasn't quite 18 when the war ended, but okay.

6 I'm not gonna be the one to translate the rest of this sentence for the first time ever. It's not weird or anything, but... yeah, no.

7 The original word used here was "daikon", like the radish, which is kind of a colloquial term to refer to a ham actor.